The figure I most identified with was Leo Szilard, who was the one who first had the idea that there could be a chain reaction. My view is we're not going to get through this with larger-than-life personalities, or figures who try to be at the center of everything. In some ways I actually see Oppenheimer as a failure case — as what should not happen. There are a lot of powerful actors who have interests here, and the only way it's going to end well for everyone is if there are checks and balances everywhere.

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On why he left OpenAI
There are many valid disagreements to be had on safety. We certainly had some of those disagreements with them, but that alone is not sufficient to leave. When you feel that you can't trust someone, when you feel that their values are not what they say they are, when you feel that they're not honest — that makes it very hard to continue to work with a company, to continue to trust the company. At the end of the day, why argue with someone when you don't have the same vision and you don't trust them? The way to resolve it is: you go off and do your thing, they go off and do their thing.

I know it sounds crazy now, looking back — not a lot of people believed that scaling up is the way these models are going to get smarter and better. That was an unusual, counter-cultural scientific perspective that I think was really held by our founding research team.

The first internet revolution was happening around me and I had absolutely no interest in it. I was just interested in doing math and scrawling things. I was interested in understanding the universe. I was interested in science fiction. I think I just felt a lot of curiosity about the world.

The experience I've had for my whole career, and certainly the whole time at Anthropic, is that there's this kind of smooth exponential. And the experience of the smooth exponential is: nothing's happening, nothing's happening, nothing's happening — little things happen, and then zoom, it goes crazy.