Sophie Mokoena: Mr Malema, some say it was ill-discipline. What was happening? Malema: Well, a member of parliament from Mali has been misbehaving. He moved from his side to our side, started fighting with a Zimbabwean lady, from there he came to me. Every time people disagree with Mali's position on rotation, he bangs tables and he doesn't stop. So when I asked him to keep quiet so that we can listen, he started being aggressive and threatened to kill me, and I said, "I won't do it here, I won't kill you here inside, I will kill you outside, so, stop threatening to kill me inside parliament." So it was a reaction. If a person says to me he will kill me you can't give him roses. I told him, "I will kill you."
Mokoena: ... is it necessary really?
Malema: I will kill him. He can't threaten me, to kill, I will kill him. I will repeat it anywhere. No-one threatens me. ... My life is more important than any other thing. I will defend myself. I didn't go to where he was sitting. He has been bullying everybody here. He can't bully me. No-one can bully me and threaten to kill me. I said to him, "out of respect for this thing I'll kill you outside, I won't kill you inside parliament." I respect this house. Today he came to me, we smoked a peace pipe and everything is fine now ... The problem here is that the western countries [of Africa] are refusing to accept the principle of rotation. And when they disagree with you, they bully you and do all types of intimidation. ...
Mokoena: What is your message [to the youth] after this video?
Malema: ... The youth of Africa [...] have tolerated nonsense for a very long time, especially from the so-called elders who are ruling them in an autocratic manner, in a manner that if you disagree you get killed, in an undemocratic manner, where women and children are being raped, [...] people who are opposing the status quo, as a way of punishing their opponents. ... That is why in this country we are able to put a stop to a potential nonsensical situation, because of our attitude [that] it doesn't matter how dangerous the situation can be, if it is not in the best interest of our people, we are going to deal with it.
Mokoena: The tension between the Francophones and Anglophones does not project a good image of the continent that is trying to unite. ... Why can Africans not speak in one voice, particularly on issues that are of interest to the continent?
Malema: The Francophones are still admiring their colonizers, they still worship the symbols of France. Actually they see themselves as French, and we have to do away with that. ... They seem to be thinking that because of the numbers of their countries they must have dominance over us, and they must serve in the best interests of what France requires them to do. ... A rotational principle helps to unite a continent, in a sense that every region feels that it is part of this parliament.
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Xoli Mngambi: That is the former president Kgalema Motlanthe who says that if there is any more friction in that town of Senekal it could spark civil war. Are you going to listen to him?
Malema: So be it. We are in this mess because of people like him, who allowed whites to undermine us like that. You think we can listen to people like him? You think we can listen to Mbeki? To Zuma? To Mandela? We'll never allow that. This nonsense must come to an end at some point. This whites should know that we are not step-children in this country. This is our country, we too belong here. And if going to Senegal will cause a civil war – if a man exercises his constitutional rights, that will lead to a civil war – so be it. I am not talking here from the comfort of my couch in the NewzRoom Afrika offices. I'll be in Senegal myself. I'll be leading from the front. Do what you want to do. What soldiers ... why should we be scared of retired soldiers, when we are not scared of them when they were soldiers? When they legitimately carried guns to kill black people, we confronted them with stones. Let history repeat itself. Let us confront the same people our parents confronted. If that is going to be the case, let it be. We are not going to live in fear here because we think white farmers are former generals. They can go to hell. Murderous generals.
Xoli Mngambi: Mr. Malema, I put it to you that as a responsible leader, you are the third biggest party in this country. Your utterances right now, you sound like a person who is spoiling for war, not the protection of democracy, that you claim to go and do there. Is that what you essentially want?
Malema: What is war? When a person says I am going to Senegal to defend a building with my body? I have never told you of AK 47. I have never told you of [?]. You are talking war? When I defend myself against white racist and terrorist. If you are scared of them it is none of my business chief. You are all alone, [when you say you are being] scared of white people. I am standing up to them.
Malema: So these popcorn and mushrooming political parties in Zimbabwe, they will never find friendship in us. They can insult us here from air-conditioned offices of Sandton, we are unshaken. They must stop shouting at us, they must go and fight with their battle in Zimbabwe and win. Even if they've got ground and they are formed on the basis of solid ground in Zim, why are they speaking in Sandton and not Mashonaland or Matabeleland? ... Let them go back and go and fight there. Even when the ANC was underground in exile, we had our internal underground forces fighting for freedom.
Fisher: You live in Sandton.
Malema: And we have never spoken from ... exile. Let me tell you before you are tjatjarag [i.e. chatty]. This is a building of a revolutionary party, and you know nothing about the revolution.
Fisher: So, so they are not welcome in Sandton but you are?
Malema: So here you behave or else you jump. [Fisher and others laugh.] Don't laugh.
Fisher: You're joking.
Malema: Chief, can you get security to remove this thing here. If you are not going to behave ... call security to take you out. This is not a news room this. This is a revolutionary house. And you don't come here with that tendency. Don't come here with that white tendency, not here. ... If you've got a tendency of undermining blacks even while you work, you are in a wrong place ...
Fisher: That's rubbish.
Malema: ... and you can go out!
Fisher: Absolutely rubbish.
Malema: Rubbish is what you have covered in that trouser. ... You are a small boy, you can't do anything. ... Bastard! Go out! You bloody agent! ... So we think that we need to ensure that we encourage Zanu PF comrades to engage in peaceful means.
I remember we adjourned for lunch and a friendly Afrikaner warder asked me the question, "Mandela, what do you think is going to happen to you in this case?" I said to him, "Agh, they are going to hang us." Now, I was really expecting some word of encouragement from him. And I thought he was going to say, "Agh man, that can never happen." But he became serious and then he said, "I think you are right, they are going to hang you."
Sophie Mokoena: The Pan-African Parliament, there has been a contestation Mr Malema, on the powers and the function of the Pan-African Parliament but also whether it is effective enough to deal with issues of governance on the continent. Malema: Well, that's what we are calling for as Pan-African Parliament, that we must have legislative powers, that we must have the capacity to play an oversight role on the executives in the continent, hold them accountable, and we can only do that if countries ratify the protocols which will allow this parliament to become a fully legislative continental body which will hold executives accountable. A lot of presidents aren't comfortable with that because they do not accept being held accountable, and those are some of the people who thrive on violation of human rights, dictatorship and stealing the government money and resources of the countries without being held accountable. They do that with impunity because they know that they control and run those countries as if they are personal properties, but with a continental body like PAP being given legislative powers to hold executives accountable, they will no longer be in a position to do all the shenanigans they are able to get away with now.
You swear you fraid o' me; you fraid I kill you, shoot you—at same time you know I have guns—you see I shoot you if I choose—nd you keep round me—you wont let me go away—you call me and my mother hard name—and yet you swear you fraid I kill you. Now, suppose I see a man in my country, in Siam—he goes out into wood, and sees a lion asleep—he say, "Oh! I fraid that lion kill me"—what I think of that man if he go up and give that lion a kick and say get out you ugly beast? I wish you'd answer me that.
I started thinking about that, and I used to think that the Talib would come, and he would just kill me. But then I said, 'If he comes, what would you do Malala?' then I would reply to myself, 'Malala, just take a shoe and hit him.' But then I said, 'If you hit a Talib with your shoe, then there would be no difference between you and the Talib. You must not treat others with cruelty and that much harshly, you must fight others but through peace and through dialogue and through education.' Then I said I will tell him how important education is and that 'I even want education for your children as well.' And I will tell him, 'That's what I want to tell you, now do what you want.'
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What would you do if people came into your house and beat you and beat your family, and then this aggressor wanted to sit down with you and say, “OK, be nice, and stay out of the country”? Imagine, they have violated President Zelaya's’s rights. They have invented accusations of crimes against him, when they never presented any order of arrest. They took him out, tied up, transferred him to another country, and now they sit him down to negotiate with the criminals.
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While Nelson Mandela was the most spectacular embodiment of the ANC’s commitment to peace and reconciliation, he was not the only leader so committed. There were others, younger and less well known, who had had harrowing experiences at the hands of apartheid’s exponents and had yet emerged from the ordeal unscathed, wonderfully seeking not revenge against the perpetrators but a healing for their traumatized and divided nation. Two such were themselves up and coming stars in the political firmament. They had been among the accused in one of the longest treason trials, dubbed the Delmas treason trial after the small town on the East Rand where it was held. One of this pair was Patrick “Terror” Lekota and the other was Popo Molefe. Both spent a spell in jail when they had met legends such as Nelson Mandela on
At the funeral, I told the people, "If you kill a lion, you will see what the lioness can do." I am not afraid of anything, not even death, because I have nothing left but my people. I am committed to protecting the CPA and ensuring that the people of Southern Sudan experience the freedom and dignity they have long yearned for.
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